James Fuson and Tore Price – Macomb

topics: healthcare, COVID testing, “flu outbreaks”, receiving stimulus checks, kites explained

[00:00:00] Natalie: This is kind of like a accessible archive documenting the lived experiences of people who were incarcerated during the pandemic. So that will include, you know, interviews, some probably like written. Um, like essays or poetry, like kind of a conglomeration of that kind of stuff and art as well so that it’s accessible for people to see and experience.

[00:00:26] So I have some questions that we’re going to go through and then using these questions I’m going to use these to like guide people. The research that I do. I still have to do like, secondary research and stuff, but I’m just getting started.

[00:00:38] Jay: What is that thing? This

[00:00:40] Natalie: is um, an audio recorder that I’m borrowing from Professor Mueller. So it has the mics right here, and then this is where the SD card is. And then it has like all the settings right here. So I’ve never used one of these before today, so I don’t know how good I’m going to be at it.

[00:00:54] But it’s very similar to, I’m a journalism major, so we use a different kind of zoom recorder that you have to like plug a mic into and everything. Oh, okay. So this is just like a smaller version of that. So I figured out the reason it might be playing back solo is because you have to adjust the input level on the side.

[00:01:09] So I’m hoping if I turn that up. But I think it’s also on auto? Where is the auto part? I’m not sure you know anything about this. I used it for many projects and it was fine on the computer. Yeah, but it was, you know, before COVID. It was like years ago. Well, it was like 2016 17 when I was using it. That’s probably going to be fine.

[00:01:28] Yeah. Okay. So, do you have your phone going right now? Yes, my phone is recording. Oh.

[00:01:37] Oops. My phone is recording everything. Alright, so. It’s

[00:01:39] Jay: a good thing I didn’t say the stuff I was going to say a lot. Yeah.

[00:01:43] Anna: Uh oh.

[00:01:49] Okay,

[00:01:50] Natalie: so, me and Professor Mueller came up with, How many questions in total, like 12? But we’re probably just going to loosely start off with them, and then you guys can kind of take it wherever you want to take it. So, the initial question is just asking, for a baseline, how long were you incarcerated for, and the time that you were released.

[00:02:10] Oh, you can also, please feel free to, like, use your names, and the recording as well. Okay,

[00:02:15] Tore: well, My name is Tore Price. Um, and I was incarcerated for 10 years. Um, the second time. Okay, so this is the second time being incarcerated in the state of Michigan. So, I’m incarcerated for 10 years this time and I was released February 7th of 2023.

[00:02:36] Jay: Uh, James Fuson. Uh, I was incarcerated 28 and a half years. And I got out September 27, 2022.

[00:02:45] Anna: Okay,

[00:02:47] Natalie: so can you tell us a little bit about health care prior to COVID 19 within the prison system? Sorry, what was that? Can you tell me a little bit about, like, health care inside the prison prior to COVID?

[00:03:00] Anna: You said prior to

[00:03:01] Natalie: COVID?

[00:03:01] Prior to COVID, because I want to see, like, how things change or remain the same with the pandemic.

[00:03:08] Jay: I got healthcare opinions about it. Uh, so in the 28 years, it has changed greatly. Like, when I first come down, you can go over there and they’ll give you whatever. Uh, but then once they introduce that co payment, and they, I don’t know if it was a change in company or just policy in general, but, you know, they will, they don’t give you anything.

[00:03:34] It’s just that they tell you to take aspirin. You say, can I have some aspirin? And I say, no, it’s… It’s in the store, you can buy it, and you’re like, okay, great, they tell you to drink water, tell you to get rest, they don’t follow, if you take, if you go to the hospital, and they say, like for example, I had hernia surgery, which that was a process to get done.

[00:03:55] Hernia. It took, um, Like, probably eight months of going back and forth to the health service to get them to agree to a consultation with an outside hospital. I have a, I have a hernia below the belt, and it was literally distending into areas, and they were like, oh, we think we can reduce this, and I’m telling them, like, I’m in pain, this hurts, this is, it’s getting bigger, it’s getting worse, it’s not stopping.

[00:04:25] And I had to, like, file paperwork, and… Um, they eventually sent me to the hospital. The doctor was like, you should have had surgery a while ago on this. They scheduled me for the surgery. I get it. The doctors prescribed me certain medications that the DOC would not allow, the health service would not allow.

[00:04:45] Certain, like certain, I want to say Tylenol 3 or 4. I don’t remember exactly what it is, but like certain, uh, because it has like coding in it that they don’t want you to have. I did get some for like 7 days. And that was a strict cut off, like, man, you can’t have any more. And it wasn’t even that. So, like, it didn’t alleviate any pain.

[00:05:03] At least, it didn’t seem like it. And, you know, uh, They’re just, you know, like, When they were testing the hernia, you know, like, The PA is asking me if I’m faking. Like, I’m like, you have my intestines in your hand. Oh my gosh. Are you pushing this out? No. Like, are you crazy? They’re, they’re bred to think that we’re all faking.

[00:05:30] They’re, they’re trained to, to look for the cheapest solution possible. Not, not the most effective, the cheapest solution. Like they were going to give me a jockstrap. for a hernia, and if I say no, I’m refusing treatment, and therefore I, I, I give up any claims. Right, so I have to be like, well, yeah, sure, I’ll take it, but I don’t know what that’s going to do.

[00:05:56] They didn’t, they never gave it to me. That was their offer, was to, first was to reduce it, if they could push it in, then they’d be like, oh, you can just keep it pushed in, and then it was, we’ll give you a jock strap, I’m like, that sounds weird, and then eventually when I filed the paper, you know, so that, that’s the type of stuff, and that’s just her.

[00:06:16] Natalie: So you had to fill out like a bunch of paperwork and they

[00:06:19] Jay: had to file a grievance and, and, uh, there’s like catchphrases that they, I’m not going to say they’re scared of, but it tells them you’re a litigator. So if you say stuff like willful negligence or, uh, there’s another one. If you use those in their document, they’re like, Oh, this guy’s gonna,

[00:06:39] That’s where they start saying, Can we give you the jockstrap? Or can we, uh, Well, we’ll just send you to the doctor, then. Get rid of you. And then, then, And then, during the consultation, They tried to, They tried to get me to sign off on my complaint. And I was like, no, I’m not. I didn’t file a grievance for a consult, Because if I did that, I would have never went back.

[00:06:56] You know, I said I filed a grievance for treatment, but eventually they gave me the truth.

[00:07:05] It took 8 months to get it done. Going back and forth, arguing with these people, everybody handling me and fondling me and doing all this stuff. And then the post treatment, like I said, I had 7 days of pain pills. I don’t know if you’ve ever had it or known anyone that’s had hernia surgery. The type that they’ve got to cut you open because there’s There’s the cut you open type and then there’s the, the digital one there with like a machine type that’s less invasive.

[00:07:32] I had to be cut open and muscles detached and all that. The, that’s like two months of hard recovery and it’s really, like you’re, you’re doing the, you’re, you’re walking like this. And then like you’re going to be out of breath by the time I get to the other side of that chair. Like I’m going to have to it all that time.

[00:07:51] It is horrible. And they don’t do, they don’t give you no wheelchair. They didn’t, they didn’t give me a wheelchair, they didn’t give me a cane. They said, no, we want you to work the muscles so you get, which I understand that reasoning, but it’s also, they just don’t want to give you a cane or a wheelchair or anything because they want to keep it like I had to walk upstairs to go to my cell, even if they put me on a lower level.

[00:08:14] Now I gotta walk downstairs to go to my cell. I got to walk all the way to the bathroom. I got to walk all the way to the child hall so that there’s no aftercare. There’s no, you have to fight and argue to get care in the first place.

[00:08:29] Tore: Well, I, I got them beat. It took, so it took me my knee. I saw it. So I.

[00:08:36] Hurt my knee playing softball and went in to get x-rays. Went through the, the, through the whole thing. I went in and did x-rays. They sent me to their, um, Jackson. So they sent me to Jackson Hospital where they would do. Um, they had their own physical therapist to say, okay, well, let me move your knee around to find out what’s going on.

[00:08:57] He goes, well, I think you have a torn meniscus. And then, so after the, after he said he thinks I have a torn meniscus, it took another 10 months to get an MRI done. So, but from the time that I hurt my knee to the time I got my MRI, it was a year. So it took a year to get an MRI on, on my knee that their physical therapist said they think.

[00:09:20] That I have a torn meniscus.

[00:09:23] Natalie: So did you get like any treatment in between that or was it all dependent

[00:09:27] Tore: on getting no treatment? It was just Motrin, Motrin take, take Motrin. So it was no, no treatment from the time that the physical therapist. Um, and then I got an M r I and then it took me actually seeing in kites saying, Hey, hello, hello.

[00:09:43] What happened? What happened? Oh, we forgot about you. Then I finally, about two weeks after they said I forgot about you. Sending kites. So sending kites. So sending kites is, is you have, is basically you fill out a form, a healthcare form and say, this is what’s wrong with me. Um, I need some help. So mine was, you already know what’s wrong with me, why haven’t I gone to, to get an MRI?

[00:10:10] So that, so that took a year from the time I got injured.

[00:10:15] Natalie: So it sounds like for both of you, the way that they delayed it made your condition so much worse and probably like much more expensive at the end of

[00:10:23] Anna: it.

[00:10:24] Tore: I’m still in pain. right now. I still have knee problems. I don’t have any tears, but they said, they said, so what happened is once they said, Oh, there’s no tears, but you just have some missing cartilage.

[00:10:35] Um, here’s some, here’s some, some bands to, to do, you know, treatments in your, in your room. So when I got back, they took the bands from me. Yeah. So, so So the doctor gave me the vans and then the health care said you can’t have them.

[00:10:53] Anna: We don’t want

[00:10:53] you

[00:10:53] Natalie: to have them. Wait, wait, the health

[00:10:54] Anna: care in

[00:10:55] Tore: the facility.

[00:10:56] So the health care in the facility, when you come back, any packages you receive, the officers take them to health care and health care says you can’t have them. But then they, but then, so what’s supposed to happen is, so instead of giving me the bands, they say, well you have an option, we’ll take you, we’ll send you to Jackson every Monday.

[00:11:15] So, you get in a van, paying money to a transportation officer to

[00:11:19] Jay: take you to Jackson from Macomb. And they wake you up early to make you sit for hours to get in that van. Pardon? You have to

[00:11:25] Natalie: make money. That payment or the no,

[00:11:27] Tore: no, no, but I’m just saying, so you talk about healthcare, you talk about what makes it more expensive.

[00:11:31] So instead of giving me the bands to do the physical therapy in my room, they would say, they’d say instead, we’ll send you once a month to Jackson. No, no, I’m sorry. Once a week, every Monday to Jackson to do, to get physical therapy, which means the programs I’m in, cause they’re there all day. So whatever program I’m in, I’m, I’m getting pulled out of that.

[00:11:55] Jay: To do physical therapy. It takes them forever to get it because they’ll wake you up at like four or five in the morning Make you go up to the control center and you wait until they come get you and these are officers How much are they making two and a half? They’re making Loads and loads of money transportation.

[00:12:13] So now they’re got two transportation officers driving you cost of gas We’re not even calculating that then you go there and then however long that takes and then you got to go through the process all the way back

[00:12:25] Tore: So normally you leave, you get, instead of just giving ’em

[00:12:27] Jay: the bands that the doctor

[00:12:29] Anna: prescribed.

[00:12:29] So the That’s

[00:12:30] Natalie: because, because you can’t hurt someone or

[00:12:32] Anna: yourself

[00:12:32] Tore: with a band. Well, it’s contraband. It’s, they say it’s contraband, but they’re, they’re they’re

[00:12:36] Anna: rubber band. Yeah. Bus. Yeah. And see like, what, what could,

[00:12:38] Jay: what could you do? I mean, people have metal braces. I got glasses.

[00:12:44] The health service, too. He touched on the thing with the kites. So they have a four page kite.

[00:12:51] It’s four or five pages. You fill out the title, you know, one copy goes here, one copy goes there, one copy, you know. And you fill it out, name, lock. Is this urgent? Is it not urgent? What, is it optometry? Is it mental health? Blah, blah, blah. And you get a little section to write what the problem is. You sign it, then there’s a little thing that says, You may be charged five bucks for this visit.

[00:13:17] Unless it meets an exception, which is like mental health is an exception, AIDS testing and stuff like that is an exception, or if they call you is an exception, or follow up treatment for the same thing. And then you have to wait until you’re able, because you can’t put it in a normal kite box, the box people put.

[00:13:40] Their kites in to go wherever it is. It’s institutional mail. You have to put this in a very specific healthcare box. Which is by the child hall. Which, by the rules, you can’t just leave your unit anytime you want. And go to, to, to do that. And you also, by the rules, if you are going somewhere, You’re not supposed to be cutting over into other areas.

[00:14:04] But they want you to anyway. So it’s just like, oh, I gotta wait to do this. And then they pick it up the next morning. And then you have to wait until they decide, like, whether, their, their gauge of importance when to call you out. It could be days, it could be weeks, you know, sometimes they lose. Kites, uh, I got called like two months after I put one in for something.

[00:14:29] And they were like, oh man, I was going through the paperwork and I found your kite. Sorry. How’s your problem?

[00:14:36] Anna: Fixed itself at

[00:14:42] Jay: this point. That I don’t know. I’ve never had that problem. Yeah, I’ve never had that. I know people are on, uh, medications and stuff for that.

[00:14:52] Anna: So do they monitor that at

[00:14:54] Jay: least? Yeah. Yeah, they, they, they do. Like if you got diabetes, uh, if you got heart… Uh, problems, or blood pressure problems, or whatever. There are, they, where they, you know, bed lines, where you go pick up your meds.

[00:15:12] But it’s like, like I said, it’s the minimum possible. It’s the cheapest possible. And if they can do anything at all, other than what they probably should do, that’s what they’re doing. They think everybody’s faking, because a lot do come in there. With, you know, blown up problems, or… Just trying to get whatever they can get from out of there, but they apply it to everybody.

[00:15:39] Even in the face of, you know, like, my guts are hanging out. How am I faking this? You know, like, so, and then they’ll eventually call you out and hopefully it’s not canceled. Like, if they blow an emergency count, it could get canceled. If, uh, the nurses might not, the nurse that you’re required to go see might.

[00:16:00] Call off the day and all her things are canceled. You gotta wait till it’s rescheduled or any number of things can happen to Reschedule your visit and then like the optometrist comes in what once a month once every couple months I think it’s like once the dentist is like once a month. Well, I think they got better at the end I think they got a regular dentist there But even the regular dentist is not there.

[00:16:23] They’re so backlogged and then and dentists go to different facility They don’t just work at one facility. They uh And, uh, the doctor, that’s, uh, an actual doctor on facility is, um, uh, that’s like a, that’s a unicorn, you know, like you gotta, By the way, I applied for my unicorn hunting license. I’m waiting for it to come to the, it’s free in Michigan.

[00:16:46] They

[00:16:47] Natalie: lost my

[00:16:49] Jay: phone. Unicorn. I’m going to be, I’m, I’m, I applied to become a licensed unicorn hunter.

[00:16:58] Just so you know, but that’s the doctors are about as rare as a unicorn sighting.

[00:17:04] Natalie: So we talked to some of the nurses. I don’t think I heard

[00:17:08] Tore: them mention a doctor. So you either see a physician assistant or a practitioner. Those are like, those are who they. consider like doctors, like, so those are the two main, like above the nurses.

[00:17:21] So if you have a problem in the nurses, they’ll come in, you know, you get your vitals and then you go see either the PA or an NP.

[00:17:33] Anna: So

[00:17:33] Natalie: did it get, were there any significant changes in the healthcare system over the years before the

[00:17:39] Anna: pandemic? Yeah, there was

[00:17:40] Tore: a big con, so, so that’s something, so there was a big contract change. They went to. Man, it’s like 2018, 2019. They had a new contract for a new service

[00:17:52] Anna: provider. And I think that for

[00:17:56] Tore: less money than the last one, right?

[00:17:59] So I mean, you could, I thought you could feel, I felt like it was, it was, there was definitely.

[00:18:06] Jay: A difference. Look, all, any con, any company that contracts with the DOC, they bid for it with other, you know, it’s a bidding war, and the winning factor is always who can provide the least amount of whatever for the least amount of cost.

[00:18:24] includes food service, how cheap can they make your food, health service, how cheap can they get your treatment, everything is, how cheap can they go.

[00:18:37] Tore: You know what the bottom, here’s the bottom line, if you don’t know anybody you’re screwed. I mean that’s really what it comes down to. So, so right, so if you don’t have contacts within the facility, you are going to have delays

[00:18:49] Jay: in process. By that he means like if you know nurses, or if you know psychs, or if you know, uh, anybody in administration that you feel comfortable talking to, that will listen to you, and you, you can, there are some that will, uh, if you say, hey look, I’m trying to do this, the regular process, and it’s not working, I’ll look into it, I’m going to write this down, and then you get over there.

[00:19:14] But that, that’s, you have to. Guys like me and him, we’ve been there for years, and we involve ourselves in things that make us rub shoulders with these people. We network, we socialize with the upper echelon, because we know that’s what you need to get stuff done. And that just helps with anything, you know, anything.

[00:19:32] Tore: So I fed nurses, right, through the food tech program. So they would come eat and I would say, Hey, you know, I really need to get over to healthcare. Oh, when do you need to go? Um, okay. And I’ll, and I’ll be, so in, in those situations, and that’s really how I got my MRI. Cause I said, Hey, why haven’t I been called?

[00:19:50] Well, what are you talking about? Let me look into it. A week later I got it. So it’s, so, you know, you’re the average person is, is in trouble. And then here it is. We’re even the, the people who are not quote unquote. You know the average incarcerated person in regards to because we put ourselves in programs and yet Look how long he waited for his surgery and look how long I waited for my MRI So he

[00:20:17] Jay: so so imagine people who just mind their own business stay in their lane keep under the radar Really, you know, they’re trying to yeah,

[00:20:25] Tore: i’ve heard i’ve heard our health care called death care.

[00:20:27] Yes I’ve

[00:20:28] Jay: heard it called death death care. Yeah Oh, there’s another name for it to involve the word murder, but it, so I believe, uh, then he said like how it compared before and after COVID. COVID, it became, it became like a paradox of, so all the services, all the non COVID services got worse because they don’t want to see you.

[00:20:56] They come to the units. They, everything’s worse on that, on that front for everybody. It’s hard to get anything done. And then it got tyrannical. On the COVID tip, so I don’t know why, but it’s like they treated COVID with such,

[00:21:17] Anna: I

[00:21:18] Jay: don’t know if you like watch horror movies, uh, like zombie movies when the outbreak happens and they have to do extreme measures, this is how they’re reacting to it, like, they’re, they’re, they’re coming around, they’re forcing you to take tests, you can refuse any medical treatment and a COVID test is considered a medical treatment, but if you do that and put you in the hole, that is punishment.

[00:21:40] But for observation. So you get punished anyway. So they force you to take COVID tests. They stress you out for days, like, depending on what company they’re using, it could be a few days, uh, before you find out what’s gonna happen. Or it could be rapid tests, which is also stressful, because, like, you’re constantly looking to see if people when the white coats come in.

[00:22:04] I c I, what I call ’em the, I

[00:22:07] Anna: called the undertakers. Take those tests.

[00:22:08] Natalie: Huh? They take those tests?

[00:22:10] Anna: No,

[00:22:11] Jay: they administer ’em to us. I know.

[00:22:12] Natalie: So it’s like you don’t know the results

[00:22:13] Anna: unless they come and tell

[00:22:14] Tore: Right, right. Until the white

[00:22:16] Jay: suits come. Okay. I called ’em the undertakers and yeah, they, and. And of course we hear all the rumors and, and, and some people feed rumors like, Oh man, these tests are only, you know, 2 percent reliable, you know, you’re like, Well, I think at this point it’s probably more reliable.

[00:22:34] But what happens is, and like in the beginning, What they did was, anybody that tested positive, they come get you, property be damned, someone else will pack it up for you, which resulted in a lot of property loss. They come and lock you up and put you in a quarantine zone, in a hole. That became so overcrowded so fast, because as you can imagine, it’s an overcrowded place, everything spreads super fast.

[00:22:59] So then they start clearing out a whole unit. So they take people in a unit. Remove 98 percent of them because they gotta have people there who don’t have it to clean and do whatever. And then they start saying, oh, you tested positive for COVID, so come on. No preamble, no, it doesn’t matter what programs you’re in, it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been.

[00:23:24] And that’s why they come get you, uproot you. They started letting you pack your property, eventually because they get too much stuff come up missing. And too much work on them. So they would say, look man, you’re going to whatever unit you tested positive, pack your shit up, you got it. 20 minutes, let’s go.

[00:23:42] Uh, also like, so that I had tested positive, uh, once. And, like, they did the okie doke. They came to the door, and they knocked on the door. And they were like, uh, they were like, Karina, let’s pack up. And I was like, oh, this is my boy. And I was like, I have to test the positive. He was like, no, you test the positive.

[00:23:59] There’s so many in the unit tested positive, we’re moving to people who don’t got it out. So that and then they put they put the stupid like 20 year old fucking crackhead gangbanger in my room He immediately like we’re he’s in the room five minutes. He already has other people in the room with us They’re they’re they’re working on their on how to light I say You know like you can do like things with batteries and wires to light cigarettes or whatever it is and they got like k2 They’re going to smoke K2.

[00:24:33] They’re in the room five minutes. I went down to the vest like, uh, I don’t know if you know Marv. Remember Marv from Lebanon? Uh, he was, uh, Mario’s buddy. He did a lot of, uh, Anyway, I went, I went down to my buddy who moved over there. And I said, dude, I can’t have this guy in the fucking room. Said, I’m gonna put you in there.

[00:24:50] So we tried to get Marv moved in with me. And they wouldn’t do it. But they, they ended up moving. I said, look, I’m not. I said, I’m trying to get, I’m, I’m going to get C Pro board in a minute. Can’t have this guy in here, I’m gonna fuck him up, or he’s gonna fuck me up, or He’s gonna raid it, he’s gonna hide drugs in my area, or anything could happen.

[00:25:07] And, uh, so they, they did end up moving me to our, a spot that I wanted to, That was, oh, they’re like, okay, these cells are open, which one do you want to go to? Cause, like, I was kind of creating a scene about it. Um, Who has to give a permission? It was the captain that did it, because, but, so what they did, They, they’ll lock the whole facility down.

[00:25:27] Lock it down. Everybody in your rooms, I have the day rooms with the nurses in there, and they call out rooms, you go down there, get your little swab, go back around, go to your room, and you wait until everything’s done. Unit’s still alive now. Then you’ll see the lab coats come in, and they got a list, a whole list of people who they’re gonna do, and they go door to door, or you’re packing up, you’re moving, or whatever it is they’re gonna do.

[00:25:52] And, um, And in this situation, it was, there was so many people in the unit that tested positive. They were keeping the positives and moving out the negatives. And there was a, a cat. It’s an app called the Clapper. I gotta get, turn the notifications off.

[00:26:10] Anna: It’s Uh,

[00:26:13] Jay: so, so, uh, clapper, so, uh, and so in that instance, they have the captain and like they’ll have the war wardens or deputy wardens come through and they make all these false promises.

[00:26:28] We’re going to move everybody at back in 21 days. We’re going to do this. We’re going to do that. They don’t ever do anything. Uh, and in this instance, it was the captain. Fat black guy, I can’t think of his name. Maybe Hall. Anyway, he, uh, uh, he was the one that was in charge of what was going on in the unit.

[00:26:46] And he was the one I was making a very big scene about. Once they were like, what can you do? And I’m like, not have him locking it. But then I was in the first cell because I’m in a dog cell. So, uh, they wanted that guy and, cause those are also observation cells, cells closest to the front desk. So they can see their movements when they’re, whenever they’re doing stuff or if people’s going into rooms or whatever.

[00:27:12] So I was like, well, you know, you had to move me then and they moved me to somebody I knew. But it took so long. It took months upon months to get back, to get back to like Chewbacca with Mario. Back in the dog cell, because we have designated cells for dog handlers, and, you know, it was very, uh, cat. And then the, the bunky I did go with, it turned out he was a dope fiend.

[00:27:36] And he was getting further and further into, he was cool, but he was just getting further and further into debt. And guys starting to knock on that door like, where’s my money? And I’m just thinking like, oh crap, you know, they’re going to come in here and just take stuff, and I’m going to be at work, or somewhere.

[00:27:50] Tore: So, so Jay is talking about… This happened January of 22. Okay. So, so the pandemic has been going on for almost two years. So, so, so the chaos that ensued after two years into it. So you say, that’s like you, you people, and I’m sorry, I’ll use that term. Don’t know how to control or do anything with COVID. And we’re two years in, this is, this was, this was just last year, January of

[00:28:17] Jay: last year.

[00:28:18] Yeah. It sounds like it’s the beginning. No, right. So this was.

[00:28:24] Tore: So I can tell you, so I was one of the first ones that were positive, uh, like early in the first week. It was, it was absolutely March 4th, March 4th of 2023 is when our facility went on lockdown and they weren’t calling it COVID, they were calling it the flu. Oh, it’s the

[00:28:42] Jay: flu. Here’s some Tamiflu. Right.

[00:28:44] Tore: So, so, so, so it was the flu.

[00:28:46] Everybody had the flu. And the only people that were wearing masks were the people. Who were positive flu, who just showed symptoms. So some, they, they had ’em wear the, the, the, the, the masks. And mind

[00:28:59] Jay: you, they’ve never locked us down for flu ever, ever in history.

[00:29:02] Tore: So we had the flu, the lockdown, March

[00:29:05] Jay: 4th, we knew something.

[00:29:06] They

[00:29:06] Tore: blew that emergency count. Yeah. Mar March 4th. And this happened, we went on lockdown.

[00:29:11] Anna: And

[00:29:13] Tore: not for flu. Not for flu. I mean, we were locked down for the, we were, the facility was on lockdown. There was no movement to anywhere. We were eating in our, our cells for the flu. Okay. And then something changed.

[00:29:31] Something, something, and I, and I don’t, I’m trying to remember the event that happened, but I don’t know if it was the governor came on and said, COVID, we’re, Michigan’s on a lockdown. So it’s like March 17th or something like that. Then all of a sudden it went from flu to COVID. Now if your temperature, if you have a, everyone’s on lockdown except those who go to, who work in the kitchen.

[00:29:52] If you had a certain temperature, you would go into the kitchen. If your temperature was 140 degrees. A hundred 0.4 or higher. They would test you for Covid. There was a very small amount of tests. Yeah. So only certain people got tested, so you had to be a hundred or 0.4 or higher. So if you’re a hundred 0.4 or higher, you get tested.

[00:30:15] I had a bunkie who worked in the kitchen. He went to work, they tested him. He was over 100.4. They let him go to work. So why he is at work, he’s coughing. So someone said, Hey, you need to send him back to his room. He comes back to the room. They didn’t say nothing to me. They say anything to me and they let him stay in the room.

[00:30:39] Then he goes back to work. Okay. And then finally they said, you know what? We’re going to test you. No, they didn’t. I’m sorry. Let me take that back. They said, nope, you’re go back to your room. Your room is on lockdown. You the two of you have to stay in the room. We have not been tested at this point. This is a, this is the end of March.

[00:31:00] This is like a week into the governor saying that we’re on this COVID, like this it’s COVID now. And I mean, I got the dates. I actually sent, sent a, sent in a letter. To, um, the Michigan Carceral Project at U of M Ann Arbor. That’s probably, I sent the letter in. Just explaining what happened. The dates and everything, I have it all.

[00:31:23] Um, so, they locked us into a room and said, You guys cannot come out of your room, even though the bathroom is down the hall. We, everyone else has to be in their rooms before the two of you can come out because you’re contaminated.

[00:31:38] Jay: Yeah, they would lock down that wing or not allow anyone on the wing.

[00:31:41] Right, and this is the

[00:31:42] Tore: beginning. So, We would say, Hey, we got to go to the bathroom. So everyone would go in their rooms. We would go down to the bathroom, use the bathroom and then clean, come in, clean the bathroom and then everyone else could come up out of their rooms. Now, this was a Thursday. That next morning we packed our stuff and went to, um, quarantine unit, quarantine unit, five block, that was the quarantine.

[00:32:04] Some of it was quarantined. So, what happened is because they said he had symptoms, he was going to get tested, and I was just there and I wasn’t going to get tested because I had no symptoms. So they put me in the cell by myself as a close contact person and put him in the

[00:32:21] Jay: cell to be tested. Didn’t close contacts have to be in quarantine longer than positive?

[00:32:25] Tore: So, so, so, right, so, so now we’re separated. He finally goes and gets tested. He tests positive for COVID. So I’m in a room. And I know I got COVID, okay? Because I have the shakes, I can’t bend over, I’m like, my body’s stiff, I’ve got the fever, I mean, I know I have COVID, but they don’t test me. They never test me because they have only had a certain amount of tests, so I basically was having COVID.

[00:32:53] Nothing, nothing happened. Were you not,

[00:32:55] Natalie: like, able to get any treatment?

[00:32:56] Tore: So with this, here’s the treatment. Every day they would come, they would check your blood pressure, they would check your oxygen, and they would check your temperature. And then they would, they would leave. And if you didn’t have any, if nothing came up on the monitor, it was really temperature.

[00:33:14] If your temperature was not 100. 4 or higher, or your oxygen levels were low enough,

[00:33:18] Jay: you weren’t getting any. And let me tell you, two people who tested positive, and I heard this from people who, Who went through this part of it and they quarantined you and like they would take all your property away. You didn’t have anything, maybe, eventually I think they started letting guys with like TV or typewriters or whatever, but they’ll just put you in this room with almost nothing and they, they just look in on you.

[00:33:41] They don’t give you anything. They don’t put, take you anywhere. You’re just like, it’s like you’re in a hole.

[00:33:47] Anna: So it’s like a punishment. Yeah.

[00:33:49] Tore: They, they were bringing the food over to the unit and then so for COVID. They would basically drop your food at your door, open the door, you pick it up because there’s electronic doors, and then, so you’re eating.

[00:34:00] Yep. You’re eating. So your food was delivered to you. So I was in quarantine for 18 days for closed contact, and the sad part about it, I didn’t shower three days. So, so they, so they said this is not, you’re not on punishment. That’s what they told me. We’re not punishing you. I didn’t get to use the phone.

[00:34:19] I didn’t get to use JPay to contact my family. So my family had no idea what happened to me. I didn’t get a shower for three days. I can’t use anything, right, because I’m in a cell that’s, I’m on lockdown. They locked me in and said, you can’t do anything, but I’m not being punished. It’s for your protection.

[00:34:40] But, you know, so, you know, my family had no idea what was going on.

[00:34:47] Anna: Was

[00:34:47] Natalie: there, like, a lot of trouble with the communication aspect of reaching the outside?

[00:34:52] Jay: Especially in the beginning, the beginning was the worst, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there was people, there were people who were, like, it was like a resistance was starting to form.

[00:35:03] Because they weren’t letting us communicate with anybody outside about anything. They were shutting the phones down, nobody can get in the J Pays. So guys are like, you know, like, I’m not going to Maryland, I’m not locking down, make us lock down. Eventually though, you know, like they started, all right, we’re gonna, we’re gonna do a certain block of cells at a time to go do this and do that.

[00:35:25] I mean, but that took a while to happen, like that didn’t happen for a couple months. But if

[00:35:30] Tore: you were positive, but early on, if you were positive or close contact, you didn’t get it. They finally, what they started to do was let the phone, let you, three, three days in, they started doing the phones, but you may not get on the phone for two days because they would only allow two people out of their, out of their rooms at a time.

[00:35:49] So you had a whole block, so you had 48, in, in the front level five, there’s like 48 guys per, uh, wing. So. They let two people out to use the phone for 15 minutes and take a shower for 15 minutes. So you would get all the way, maybe halfway through and they’re like, Oh, we’re done for the day. And then you hope they start back up the next day.

[00:36:14] Where they left off, but not, but they don’t always happen that way. They may stay, they may go back.

[00:36:21] Jay: Yeah, they’ll lose, they’ll lose the sheet that they were using to keep track. Oh, so some

[00:36:25] Natalie: people are like, able to do it a

[00:36:27] Anna: couple times. Yeah,

[00:36:28] Tore: so, so if you were like, okay, let’s say I’m in cell one. So it’s cell one through, um, I think it’s like 30, it’s not 30, it’s like 25, 25 rooms in level.

[00:36:39] So it’s like, so if you’re in cell one, And they start at you, so you start, you use the phone, take a shower, right? So you got, you got like 30 minutes to do both. Come back in, they get down at 15. The next day, the officers didn’t write down what they were supposed to, they’ll start back again at 1. Now, if the guy’s honest, he’ll say, Hey man, I had my, they stopped at 15 yesterday.

[00:37:01] Anna: But not everybody’s honest.

[00:37:03] Natalie: They’re like, I want my 15 minutes

[00:37:05] Tore: on the floor. Right, because they did not, because they did not document properly who, I mean, so you could, Or

[00:37:10] Jay: the sheet got lost, or they’re like, Well, I’m doing this my way. You know, that was that shift. I’m, I, I run this shift. How is,

[00:37:19] Natalie: um, like the staff responses to the COVID?

[00:37:23] Oh, they

[00:37:23] Jay: blamed us for it. It says it’s like they treated us like it was our fault. Like we’re the

[00:37:28] Anna: ones that Oh no, we brought them in.

[00:37:29] Natalie: They were the ones coming

[00:37:30] Anna: in.

[00:37:30] Jay: We’re spreading it. We’re doing it. It’s like, no, you.

[00:37:35] Tore: Yeah. Oh, the reason why you guys don’t have visits because you guys are the ones who brought in COVID.

[00:37:40] Anna: Yeah,

[00:37:43] yeah, yeah, no, they,

[00:37:44] Tore: they, they, no, this is what they, this is what some officers said is that it is our fault. And of course, when they locked down visits, I was like, okay, who’s bringing it in now? Who’s got

[00:37:54] Jay: COVID now? Which by the way, and I know this isn’t related to what you’re doing, but no, no visitors. No volunteers, nobody connected to an inmate, was allowed to enter the facility, and not even come on the grounds, and drugs were more prevalent than ever during the pandemic.

[00:38:14] And, but they swept it all under the rug, because there was no way we were

[00:38:18] Natalie: bringing it in. There was a lot of drugs, alcohol, and those deteriorated. Yeah, uh, K2.

[00:38:25] Jay: Also known as 2G. Uh, what’s the other stuff?

[00:38:29] Tore: Fentanyl? Fentanyl. Oh, we had plenty of fentanyl. What’s the

[00:38:32] Jay: third one? Fentanyl, Heroin, K2,

[00:38:38] Tore: Suboxone.

[00:38:38] Suboxone. No, listen. If there was a drug, it was there. Okay? In my whole time, I’ve never seen cocaine. Powder cocaine, and it was there. In my whole time, I’ve never… What is the other one? The little brother of cocaine. Um, so it, it was

[00:39:03] COVID, COVID came in, drugs went up, you know, you get some stimulus money.

[00:39:09] Jay: The stimulus money was nice. Yeah, stimulus money. I’m not talking about that. I don’t want to ruin them. I want to ruin it for the guys. Future stimulus. Oh man, hey dude, hey, me and Mario started partying up in that thing. We were one of the first ones to get it.

[00:39:23] We didn’t think we were going to get it. Like we

[00:39:25] Anna: Yeah. I didn’t realize that. Listen, I was sitting. Oh, you didn’t know.

[00:39:27] Jay: We got Mario and Mario. Listen, me and Mario are one of the first ones to get it. We didn’t say nothing for weeks until other people started talking about it, but I’m just, I was sitting in my chair.

[00:39:35] The door’s here, Mario’s talking about the first 600, the the 2000, oh no, the

[00:39:40] Tore: 1200. The 1200 that came in like November. Yes. The very

[00:39:44] Jay: first, the very first, very first one. I’m sitting in that chair and then the little sheets got slid down.

[00:39:52] Anna: I

[00:39:52] Jay: was like, what the fuck? What like, I’m like, I got, I don’t see money like that. So yeah, I got mine

[00:39:59] Tore: on. I didn’t, I didn’t have because, because if they, if money, if money came in for me, they would’ve, uh, charged me. It would’ve taken all my money.

[00:40:06] Jay: Yeah. That’s why I had to spend mine. ’cause they, they take money from you after you get, if you have over so much because you have over so much money, they start charging you rent.

[00:40:16] It’s a lot. Yeah. But anyway, uh oh, that’s But back on, back on point. So the, so the health service, they became tyrannical. And although it’s MDOC policies, they were also enforcing it and they weren’t doing anything to combat it, so they were part of the tyranny of it. They didn’t like a lot of it because it was extra work for them, but they went right along with it.

[00:40:41] Um, they did not provide you with anything to help you if you have anything, like Tamiflu doesn’t do anything for COVID. Uh, we got the boosters, the vaccines and the boosters. How soon

[00:40:57] Natalie: were stuff like masks and vaccines available?

[00:41:01] Jay: It took a minute for the masks, but once they came in, it was just like non stop, man.

[00:41:06] It took forever, forever. People stopped wanting, like, we don’t want these anymore.

[00:41:10] Tore: Masks started probably three, three to four weeks in, we started getting the masks that were made out of uniforms. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it was, it was, it was the blues. It was the masks made out of our blues. They started making the masks.

[00:41:23] Couldn’t breathe. They were garbage. Through that material, you could not… It’s like a staple. And

[00:41:27] Jay: the straps were… Yes. It had these weird cross hatched straps that didn’t fit on your head well, so it was like, you’d crush your nose. Very… Against your mouth. And you had to wear it? We all kept our shit below our face.

[00:41:42] You had to wear

[00:41:43] Tore: them outside, too. Everywhere. You could not breathe outside. it.

[00:41:47] Jay: If you’re not in the shower… You had to take it outside, too. If you’re not in the shower, actually eating, or brushing your teeth, or in your room, you gotta wear it.

[00:41:56] Anna: Okay, but…

[00:41:58] Natalie: Fair, like everybody was closed April, like the entire world, nobody want him, they done, actual surgical.

[00:42:08] Anna: Well, well, not mass, but

[00:42:10] Tore: okay, well, well in general what they could have done.

[00:42:19] I, I, so, so, so I’ll say, I’ll say, I’ll give him the pass at it, but here’s my problem, my, my roommate. My roommate had a temperature of 100. 4. He was sent back with me. So, So, so that is that, I mean, yeah. Okay. Not don’t know what to do if that is the threshold. So if we made a threshold, which was a very high threshold to begin with, because their testing was so bad, so low.

[00:42:51] Here’s a,

[00:42:52] Jay: here’s, here’s a huge, huge blunder on their part that I think was actually willful. Uh, when, when they have, when they did mass testing on the, on the whole facility and you have whatever percentage it might be that test positive, they start shuffling people around the units. Positive people and non positive people.

[00:43:16] And they tell, if you two tested positive, you get moved to this other unit and they need our room for some other positives. So they put us in your room where you were just at and didn’t clean it and didn’t clean it. And then, you know, it says this, and they really just. It’s like shuffling cards with the inmates and then it just keeps it like perpetuates it for however long it takes.

[00:43:39] I think they wanted it before, okay, when the pandemic started that gave the administration, now the, the, the, the, the people on the ground not necessarily wanted this because it made a lot more work for them, but the administration obtained so much control over the population that they weren’t allowed to do because it wasn’t necessary like.

[00:44:03] So they can control who, uh, associates with who on the yard, they can, they can, they can do it by wing, they can do it by unit, they can monitor and control movement, who’s going where, uh, they can lock people down, they can control property. They had so much, you know, minute control that they didn’t have before.

[00:44:27] And that is, and plus they get funds, they get funds for, if you had so many, if you, they obtain like outbreak status.

[00:44:34] Tore: So, I mean, so I think the thing is, is that the neglect was there purposely because if we neglect it… And we still have these high numbers, we’re still able to have the control. And I was told I was a block rep at during COVID.

[00:44:47] And I was told by a deputy warden, I was a blocker. So blocker just voted in. You’re the representative for your unit to go and talk to administration about problems.

[00:45:03] Yes. So the people, so the people in the unit vote you in. So you, so you have a, um, uh, a person of color and someone in person who. It represents each

[00:45:15] Anna: white person,

[00:45:16] Tore: right? That, that, that represents that represents each unit. So I was asking questions and I was pulled to the side by deputy warden and said, deputy warden seats, deputy warden seats pulled me aside and said, listen, price,

[00:45:35] Anna: we like it like this.

[00:45:37] Tore: We have more control over you than we ever have. So the fact that your unit doesn’t get to intermingle with this unit or this unit or this unit. So if you’re telling me you like us being quarantined, then why wouldn’t it be, why wouldn’t you be the one who is, uh, controlling numbers and moving these people around?

[00:46:04] I mean, if people are positive, you know, people are positive, everyone should be stable. Stay put. And then once you know who’s positive, pull them out and put them

[00:46:13] Anna: into a circle. Call prayer.

[00:46:17] Jay: Yeah, I get church bells, calls for prayer. Oh yeah, but call to prayer.

[00:46:22] Anna: It’s like a trauma. Yeah.

[00:46:28] Tore: So, so it’s, you know, so was it, you know, the conspiracies are there, you know, but you ask, you know, people say, well, why would they do, why would they do this? Well, they would, they would do it because for me, in my eyes, from what I heard, they’re in

[00:46:42] Jay: control. Now the COs, most of them don’t like it. Because they’re constantly.

[00:46:49] constantly having to enforce a thousand new rules and they’re being watched on camera just like us. There’s cameras everywhere. And so like, you know, quit walking the halls, you know, four to a table, quit standing up, you know, put your mask up, you know, all day long they’re yelling. They don’t want to do that.

[00:47:08] They want to go in there, sit in a chair like this and collect that fat check.

[00:47:14] Anna: But they’re

[00:47:15] Jay: not, with these new rules, they can’t.

[00:47:19] Tore: No, nobody. They play games on the computer. . Oh yeah. They, they, they, they get to go in, in the, oh, yeah. In the, in the, uh, office. And they’re on the computer all day.

[00:47:28] Anna: I saw them playing

[00:47:28] Jay: Solitaire.

[00:47:29] Well, they can’t do that with the pandemic, solitary, were they Now, it’s, now it’s, uh, constant. You know, they, they just have, they have to work and it’s not productive work. It’s just busy

[00:47:42] Anna: work.

[00:47:44] Natalie: Were they still transferring people from They

[00:47:47] Anna: stopped for a while. They stopped for a while. They stopped for

[00:47:49] Tore: a while.

[00:47:49] Okay. Yeah, that’s, that’s going on now. Unless, so, so, unless you were designated as a COVID spy. Yeah. So, so, early on, or early on, they designated certain prisons as a COVID prison. So they would transfer people. And step down prisons. Yeah. From outside to the COVID spot. Right. So from our facility, a bunch of guys who tested positive initially went to like Adrian, they went to other one of them.

[00:48:17] Jay: I think some of them

[00:48:21] Tore: came back, but initially they’re just trying to get people out because they were trying to figure out what What to do, but normal transfers. If it wasn’t medical covid transfer? No. No you weren’t. No.

[00:48:35] They stopped transfers, man. Maybe a year and a

[00:48:37] Anna: half. There was also a VIN when they were,

[00:48:42] Jay: no, there was a lot of talk to do that, but

[00:48:45] Tore: nobody got released.

[00:48:46] Anna: There was like a on the new.

[00:48:47] Jay: It was a lot of talk to do it. No. No.

[00:48:51] Tore: That was talk. In fact, they stopped people from being released. So if you were, so if you were, um, if you got a parole and you’re, so it’s Friday and you’re supposed to get parole run too, they would test you.

[00:49:03] And early on, if you got, if you tested positive for COVID, they would quarantine you and you could not go home on your

[00:49:09] Jay: update. Yeah. They’d wait 14

[00:49:11] Tore: 14 days before you could

[00:49:13] Jay: go. And you better test negative. So what

[00:49:16] Tore: happened is. So we had a guy, I had a guy I know a guy. He’s out now. Father Tim. Tim Kane. Yeah.

[00:49:22] So Tim, um, tested negative. He didn’t tell anybody. He got out and was hospitalized at Henry’s bad, be afraid that if he said something right then he was, he would, he would not have, he would, they would not have released him. So right after he had tested negative, two days later he started having symptoms and then he, but he went home that Tuesday.

[00:49:49] So he is like I said that no chance. Yeah. You know, so, so he was really sick for like a week in the hospital

[00:49:57] Anna: after he was released. Oh, after he was released? Right, yes. Okay, so after he was released and then… He,

[00:50:02] Tore: he went to the hospital because he knew he was, he knew, he knew he was sick. Yeah. But you know that the test didn’t, it didn’t, it didn’t show up that he, that he was…

[00:50:15] Anna: And I’m sorry I have got to… No. Try the meat ones. Here, I’ll,

[00:50:19] Jay: I’ll call, I’ll call Cooper and tell him you’re not making it. What’s his number?

[00:50:24] Anna: Cooper’s gonna get mad. He must be so happy to have you around so much. Oh, this is better. Better?

[00:50:33] Jay: That is better, yeah. It’s better, but it’s not like… The other one was just different.

[00:50:37] Okay. I’ve had

[00:50:37] Tore: some pierogies from a restaurant. One,

[00:50:39] Anna: one time

[00:50:40] Natalie: you

[00:50:41] Anna: pierogi. I’ve had some, some good…

[00:50:48] Tore: These aren’t like the ones I’ve had. Jay can make these

[00:50:50] Jay: from scratch. Well, these are the only ones I’ve ever had, so they’re the best I’ve ever had.

[00:50:55] Tore: Well, that’s good. Um,

[00:50:58] Jay: but Cooper is, uh… Before

[00:51:01] Natalie: you go, uh, because we need help to find more stories, more voices, more people. Jamal? Yeah, Jamal left,

[00:51:14] Jay: uh… That was pre pandemic, wasn’t it?

[00:51:16] Jamal? Jamal,

[00:51:17] Tore: Jamal left door independent.

[00:51:19] Anna: During the pandemic.

[00:51:19] Natalie: But anyway, because you know, these stories can live on it. I mean, like not necessarily the whole recording, right.

[00:51:25] But you know, um, pieces of it or what she writes about this can live on the web because we need to start documenting this, right. So if you have anything shared with Natalie, if you can. Get info from the guys who are still, like, we ask you to maybe record ’em if you call them, because we cannot talk to them on the phone.

[00:51:43] We cannot do this.

[00:51:44] Anna: I don’t know where you

[00:51:45] Tore: can right now. I can’t. They, they, they told me we didn’t get an I R B, so, so I, but I could’ve done it. Oh,

[00:51:51] Anna: we are doing rrb B for this. Oh, okay. So you are so, so you can

[00:51:54] Tore: say you, you can go in with a focus group about it, but I, but this is our focus group. Yeah. I can’t, I can’t go.

[00:52:00] I, we, so we decided, The inside guys that we’re going to do are guys who…

[00:52:07] Anna: Okay, but for

[00:52:09] Natalie: this, for COVID. Yeah. But, you know, even if you talk to them, even if they, you cannot interview them, ask them to write something and send it, you know, to

[00:52:19] Anna: you.

[00:52:21] Tore: But I’ve got one, I’ve got one last story before that. So it’s COVID, it’s May of 2020.

[00:52:27] And they’re coming in to do a mass test for, um… It was a blood test. It was, it was a deceitful answer about the antibodies. Okay. The national guard is coming in to do these tests. Everybody on the facility has to get this. So you’re getting tested for COVID. I think, and then the antibody.

[00:52:47] Jay: They want to know if, if you don’t have it now, did you ever have it?

[00:52:50] Right.

[00:52:51] Tore: This was May 23rd.

[00:52:54] Anna: Food

[00:52:54] Tore: tech. Now they take us out and we cooked for the National Guard, okay,

[00:53:03] Anna: while

[00:53:04] Tore: we’re being so, so we, so we get tested and these are the tests that go in. These weren’t instant tests. These are tests they get. So as long as we get tested, we’re fine. Go cook for them. Even without, without

[00:53:15] Natalie: knowing.

[00:53:15] Tore: Before, before, before any, before any results, but it just, it just. What it shows for me is, is that, is that whatever you want to do or choose to do, did. So whatever would benefit you, you would make any kind of difference. We hadn’t been out of our rooms for, for, for food tech since March 4th. And then they called us.

[00:53:41] And of course we’re running, and guess what? We get to eat too, but, but it’s, it, it is just, just that, that like, Oh, we get to get out of our rooms. You know? So that’s, uh. It’s whatever they want it to,

[00:53:57] Anna: it’s whatever they

[00:53:57] Tore: want it to, but I, you know, you can call me, if you need more information, just, just give me a call, Zoom, whatever, whatever you need to do.

[00:54:07] Alright. I’m, I’m available.

[00:54:09] Anna: Uh, and

[00:54:10] Natalie: if you need any help, with like secondary, just abstracts, you know, let us know. Okay. Paul will be in town in, I will be in town. I’m back in the States and I’m… When do you leave? I’m leaving in 10 days.

[00:54:32] Anna: Whatever you need.

[00:54:33] Tore: You

[00:54:33] Anna: got my number? Yes. Call me. Thank you.

[00:54:35] Natalie: Alright. Is the Sean Gott coming? Do we know? I

[00:54:37] Anna: haven’t heard from him. What time was he supposed to come? He was supposed to come at 5. 5, right?

[00:54:42] Natalie: So, maybe not. Okay.

[00:54:44] Anna: Alright. Thank you.

[00:54:45] Jay: Thank you so much. Take the sour cream ones with

[00:54:48] Anna: you. No, you can eat it.

[00:54:49] Natalie: Like don’t force him. Eat it. Yes, I will eat one and you can eat the rest. You

[00:54:55] Anna: guys have a good evening. You too. Bye.